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Thought I'd start a new thread...

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#1 jeweler jim

jeweler jim

    Posse Whipping Boy

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  • Location:Cary, IL
  • SASS#:50409 L
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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:29 PM

We had the discussion and I was not happy with the way we left it.  Here's the follow up and you can go to the address or read the stuff below it... (or both)

Anyway the bottom line is no call if the overload is ejected at the end of the string.  Worth the read anyway...


Overloading the rifle
... Overloading a rifle on a stage is not a safety issue. The safety comes into play if the shooter has any rounds left in the rifle after he/she has fired the rifle and committed to the next gun. Then, and only then, a safety shall be issued if a live round is left anywhere in the rifle.
Should the shooter realize that they have loaded too many rounds and safely ejects those rounds, it’s a no call. Should the shooter fire more rounds than called for in the stage, it would be a “P” for using ammunition that was illegally acquired.
What’s the Call?
Application of related existing rules/penalties - PaleWolf Brunelle, SASS #2495
Stage calls for 9 rounds in the rifle. Shooter loads 10 rounds at the loading table. Whats the call if:
1. Shooter shoots 9 rounds and ejects the 10th round...safely restages rifle “open & empty”. NO CALL – NO MSV penalty for overloading – Rifle is considered “safe to leave shooter’s hands”.
2. Shooter kicks out the first round and then shoots the next 9 rounds. “P” + miss (use of “illegally acquired” ammunition)
3. Shooter shoots 5 rounds, then kicks one out, and then shoots the next 4 rounds. “P” + miss (use of “illegally acquired” ammunition)
4. Shooter shoots 9 rounds then puts down open rifle and then shoots the next gun. MSV for an unfired round remaining in long gun action or magazine
SDQ if round is chambered (e.g. lever closes when restaged)
Here are the applicable rules used in determining the penalty for use of a "preloaded" replacement round in a rifle:
Ammunition required for reloads during the course of any stage must be carried on the shooter’s person in a bandoleer, cartridge/shotshell belt loop, pouch, holster, or pocket or be safely staged as required by stage instructions. ...
...Leather belt slide ammo loops are acceptable; ...
SHB p.11
The penalty for using "illegally acquired" ammunition (i.e. NOT carried to the line/staged by the shooter in an approved manner) will be a PROCEDURAL. Any targets hit using that ammo will be scored as MISSES.
NO adjustments will be made to the stage raw time.
SHB pp.21 & 25 – RO1 p. 21 – RO2 p.6
24. Ammunition dropped by a shooter in the course of reloading any firearm during a stage or “ejected” from any firearm is considered “dead” and may not be recovered until the shooter completes the course of fire. The round must be replaced from the shooter’s person or other area as required by stage description or if the round is not fired it is counted as a missed shot.
SHB p.24 – RO1 p.19
Hipshot SASS#7
Additional Q&A:
1) If you load too many rounds in your rifle it's a no call but ONLY if you kick it out AFTER you have fired all the rest of the rounds in the rifle?
If a round is 'kicked out'/ejected DURING the rifle shooting string (as opposed to at the END), the 'extra
round' is there to replace it.
Rather than rely on a "judgement call" as to the shooter's INTENT (i.e. was the rifle overloaded on purpose or not?), the rules regarding "illegally acquired" ammo can be applied in ALL circumstances where the 'extra' round is used.
NO PENALTY for overloading.
The following existing rules STILL apply:
"P" + miss for use of ANY 'extra' round(s) preloaded in the magazine at the loading table to replace ANY that are ejected during the rifle shooting string.
MSV for leaving rounds in the rifle at the end of the shooting string (shooter has until FIRING the next gun to clear it)
...or...if the rifle is the last firearm used on the stage; it must be cleared before leaving the shooter's hand(s) @ the ULT.
SDQ if an extra round ends up in the chamber (e.g. rifle returned to scabbard & the lever closes)
A “Spirit of the Game” penalty would NOT be appropriate as there is no advantage in getting the 15-second penalty (Procedural + Miss) for intentionally ‘overloading’ in anticipation of ejecting a round during the rifle shooting string.
2) If a shooter fires the extra round.... Shoots the 9 targets, and dumps the extra round into the back of the bay. What is the call? Is it a "P" for firing 10 rounds when the stage called for 9?
YES...according to the WB mandate. The round MAY NOT BE FIRED to clear the rifle.
NOTE: This is NOT the same as loading 2 in a shotgun and firing one (or both) at a target or firing the "extra" round downrange. The shotgun is generally NOT "preloaded" at the loading table.
"No Good Deed Shall Go Unpunished"

jeweler jim

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