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TG Summit Items


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17 replies to this topic

#1 jeweler jim

jeweler jim

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 07:01 AM

Doubt that I'll make it to Vegas, but will be sure to have my proxy in to have it voted with your input.  Reply here and or at any place your cross my path to give me feed back.  

Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit


1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE?
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe.
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun.
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted?
• Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm.

2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns.
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted?

3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category “Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter”? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current “Frontier Cartridge” category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current “Gunfighter” Category.
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles.
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands)
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed);
FCGF (both hands)

4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882.
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884?
• Rifles: Any SASS–legal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin).

DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level.
2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm.
3) Category restructuring ideas.
  

"No Good Deed Shall Go Unpunished"

jeweler jim

#2 Muddy Gap Shootist

Muddy Gap Shootist

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 09:27 PM

View Postjeweler jim, on 09 October 2010 - 07:01 AM, said:

Doubt that I'll make it to Vegas, but will be sure to have my proxy in to have it voted with your input.  Reply here and or at any place your cross my path to give me feed back.  

Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit


1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE?
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe.
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun.
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted?
• Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm.


Just my two bits worth---

NO on #1; NO on #2; YES on #3; and, YES on #4

2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns.
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted?

3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category “Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter”? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current “Frontier Cartridge” category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current “Gunfighter” Category.
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles.
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands)
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed);
FCGF (both hands)

4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882.
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884?
• Rifles: Any SASS–legal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin).

DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level.
2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm.
3) Category restructuring ideas.
  


"Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked across your grave..."

"... I'm afraid the strain was just too much for him to bare..."

THE Muddy Gap Shootist

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#3 Snidely Whiplash

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 01:40 AM

View Postjeweler jim, on 09 October 2010 - 07:01 AM, said:

Doubt that I'll make it to Vegas, but will be sure to have my proxy in to have it voted with your input.  Reply here and or at any place your cross my path to give me feed back.  

Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit


1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE?
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe.
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun.
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted?
• Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm.

Most of the cowboys I've watched at matches bring a measured number of rounds to the loading table, i.e., 10 rounds for their rifle and 10 rounds for their pistols. That makes it safer as it's harder to load more than 10 in your rifle without noticing one or both of your pistols are short of a full load. I've seen a few cowboys with 50 round plastic boxes with a separate hole for each round at the loading table, and if they get to leaving partial rows in the box, they could forget how many they put in the rifle.

Just out of curiosity, how many readers take more than 20 rounds of ammo (not counting belt loops and bandoliers) in a loose box, bucket, pouch, etc., to the loading table?

Snidely Whiplash

Edited by Snidely Whiplash, 10 October 2010 - 01:41 AM.

Looking for gold coins, preferably Canadian Maple Leafs - your gold coins, that is... Muhahaha!

#4 Johnny Popper

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 05:40 PM

My 3 cents worth. (due to inflation)

#1 NO.  Shooter should be aware of what is required for each stage and not have more ammo than required.  It usually is read at the beginning of each stage.  The loading table officer “should” remind the shooter.
#2 YES.  As long as there are no more live rounds in the long gun.
#3 YES.
#4 NO.  B Western usually had 92 Winchesters.  Even if they wanted a 66 Henry, the took the for-stock off the 92.

Discussion items:
#1.  Seems it might be confusing.  Double entries?
#2.  I don't think it is a good idea.  But I would like to have one.
#3.  No ideas on that one!
    

JP

The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. Benjamin Franklin

There is more that one way to skin a cat..............

Man! There are a lot of naked cats running around here!!
.... me ....


#5 Old Blackhawk Creek Coot

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 09:05 AM

As I see it(for what that's worth)

#1. No.  I think that is part of just paying attention to the stage.

#2. Yes.  That can be just an unforseeable incident, i.e. an empty rifle round landing in a '97, that would technically be a violation.

#3. Yes.  That I think is just an easy change.

#4. No.  At what point do we say; hey, let's change it to use a '73 cuz it's only a few years early and it is a SASS legal gun.

Discussion items:

1) Really? Just one alias per entrant per match, period.
2) I just don't think it is a good idea.  But, like JP I would like to have one.
3) That could get dicey. Changes could really start a lot of whining and moaning.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Old BC Coot


"There's no such thing as normal life - there's just life now get on with it." - Doc Holliday

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#6 Wrangler Rich

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 05:19 PM

Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit


1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE?
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe.
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun.
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted?
• Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm.

No


2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns.
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted?


No


3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category “Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter”? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current “Frontier Cartridge” category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current “Gunfighter” Category.
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles.
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands)
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed);
FCGF (both hands)


Yes


4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882.
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884?
• Rifles: Any SASS–legal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin).

No

DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level.

1 is enough for anybody, if he or she would shoot twice, they couldn't do twice the work.  It would also be an unfair advantage due to the fact that they already know the stage from just shooting it.

2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm.

No


3) Category restructuring ideas.

Need to have a moritorium placed on new rules.  2 years minimum after a rule change from previous rule.


Just my Dos Centavos


WR
It's not like it used to be, but it'll do.

#7 Push the Button Wyatt

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 08:24 PM

Most of what your talking about is miles over my head. Something to do with old age, i think.Now for the "Mares Leg Handgun" The way i see it, It's not a HAND GUN, it's just a sawed up, choped up piece of CRAP.Why any one would do that to a rifle is way behond Stupid.Of course my dear ole dad used to eat pickeled pigs feet,so what do i know ???

#8 Ugly

Ugly

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Posted 14 October 2010 - 10:28 AM

Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit


1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE?
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe.
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun.
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted?
• Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm.

No


2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns.
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted?


Yes--How in the world can an empty shell casing that accidentally was not ejected or, has fallen into an open chamber be a danger?


3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category “Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter”? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current “Frontier Cartridge” category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current “Gunfighter” Category.
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles.
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands)
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed);
FCGF (both hands)


No--let them shoot in regular Gunfighter or Senior Gunfighter class, It's their choice of what kind of powder to use.



4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882.
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884?
• Rifles: Any SASS–legal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin).

Yes

DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level.

No

2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm.

No



3) Category restructuring ideas.

None

Posted Image
Witnessing the Republicans and the Democrats bicker over the U.S. debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic.

#9 Chicago Outlaw Sider

Chicago Outlaw Sider

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 09:25 PM

Oh My God!! This is getting out of controll.

   Just Say NOOOOOOO !!!!! :thumbdown:  :disgust:
I say nothing, but, I say it very loudly.
God Bless, and be safe.
32 Degree Masson and Shriner
Benafactor NRA

#10 jeweler jim

jeweler jim

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 03:52 PM

Okay, one hundred plus badge carrying members and eleven current Rough Riders...

And what is the response to represent or be carried to the summit regarding what we want?  

FIVE!

Don't think I should be giving my take on the agenda, but explain it if you ain't sure of what they mean.  If that's your excuse ask questions, but five people to call the tune for the entire posse???

"No Good Deed Shall Go Unpunished"

jeweler jim

#11 Huckleberry

Huckleberry

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 08:57 AM

Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit


1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE?
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe.
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun.
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted?
• Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm.

No


2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns.
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted?


No


3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category “Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter”? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current “Frontier Cartridge” category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current “Gunfighter” Category.
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles.
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands)
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed);
FCGF (both hands)


Yes


4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882.
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884?
• Rifles: Any SASS–legal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin).

Yes

DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level.

No

2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm.

No


3) Category restructuring ideas.

No



#12 Chicago Outlaw Sider

Chicago Outlaw Sider

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 10:48 PM

View PostHuckleberry, on 15 November 2010 - 08:57 AM, said:

Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit


1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE?
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe.
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun.
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted?
• Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm.

No


2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns.
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted?


No


3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category “Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter”? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current “Frontier Cartridge” category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current “Gunfighter” Category.
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles.
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands)
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed);
FCGF (both hands)


Yes


4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882.
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884?
• Rifles: Any SASS–legal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin).

Yes

DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level.

No

2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm.

No


3) Category restructuring ideas.

No



I say nothing, but, I say it very loudly.
God Bless, and be safe.
32 Degree Masson and Shriner
Benafactor NRA

#13 jeweler jim

jeweler jim

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 02:56 PM

I will be sending our proxy vote off in the mail next Tuesday or so...

As it stands right now we have less than one response for every fifteen members which means than most on the posse can't really complain about the way anything gets voted on at the summit.  

"No Good Deed Shall Go Unpunished"

jeweler jim

#14 Rio Jack

Rio Jack

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 06:15 PM

No on all counts except #4 Yes to Burgess Rifle.
Did I shoot six times or five, do you feel lucky.

#15 dd

dd

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 09:16 PM

What Rio Jack said.
~dd~

Posted Image

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson
Guns have only two enemies - rust and politicians.

1911........Much faster than 911

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#16 Chicago Outlaw Sider

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 10:29 PM

I thank you all for what you do for us. I for one try and get on our web site once a week. I know there has been a lot of work put into this site and I wish more people would use it.

Sometimes I say to much, sometimes not enough.

Thanks
COS :gunfighter:
I say nothing, but, I say it very loudly.
God Bless, and be safe.
32 Degree Masson and Shriner
Benafactor NRA

#17 Snidely Whiplash

Snidely Whiplash

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 02:10 AM

Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit


1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE?

No

2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun?

No

3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category “Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter”?

I don't care either way.

4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882.
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884?

Yes

DISCUSSION ITEMS:
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level.

Yes, they should be allowed.  No! (except for schizophrenics and people suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder). Maybe.... I don't know. Why would anyone want to?

2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm.

Yes, but only as a rifle, not as a handgun.  :wink:

3) Category restructuring ideas.

I read Tex's article in the November Cowboy Chronicle (2010, p. 6-7) and can see a problem could occur with too many classes. They can be useful at large national, regional or state events, but they can over-fractionate the shooters at smaller events. I suggest copying what was being done at United States Chess Federation tournaments, back when I was playing at rated events. Have Category awards based upon a minimum number of entries within that category. Tex's suggestion to break down categories by age groups would serve for very large events. For smaller events, the Territorial Governor and/or Posse members can come up with a local schedule which says if there are 5 or 10 or however many shooters within a category, they will be eligible to compete for a prize. If there aren't enough people to qualify a particular category for a prize, they are just listed as shooting in the "such-and-such" category, and their times are listed, but they can't win anything besides a clean shoot coin.

Snidely Whiplash
Looking for gold coins, preferably Canadian Maple Leafs - your gold coins, that is... Muhahaha!

#18 jeweler jim

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 05:59 AM

Okay, I'm mailing the proxy to PaleWolf Brunelle today with the suggested voting as follows:

1.  NO

2.  NO

3.  YES (by a very slim margin)

4.  NO (and really a toss up)

Pretty much a negative response to all discussion items.

Told PaleWolf that the voting is really at his discretion as once you get to the summit things can change, be reworded and or new ideas change the way something can be understood.  So the response we give him is our preference prior to any changes that might take place.  

Thank you to those that replied.

"No Good Deed Shall Go Unpunished"

jeweler jim




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