Equipment Modifications Proposal and Poll

dd · January 2006

<div class="IPBDescription">I need your vote!</div>The TG Bulletin arrived yesterday along with the controversial "Equipment Modifications Proposal". The SASS Wire has a heated discussion of this issue and it is up to the shooters to indicate to me, your Territorial Governor, how you wish me to vote on this matter. I must have my vote in by February 15th. 
 
Several major changes are contained in the new rule proposal: 
There has been a line drawn on the lever stroke on rifles and this distance has been defined. 
The Lighting Rod is illegal. 
The XS Sight is legal. 
The Winchester 97 (original and reproductions) in 12 and 16 gauge is the only pump shotgun that may be used. 
 
My own personal opinion is that while we need to curb the "Equipment Race", this proposal is "too much, too late". I think it places an undue burden on the shooters who have, in good faith, modified or purchased equipment according to existing rules only to find they would now be illegal and are now unable to easily "remodify" them to be legal under this proposal. 
 
Please download and read over the attached copy of the proposal. It is in pdf format and you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to open it. There is a link to this reader at the bottom of the left column on the main Good Guys Posse website if you need it. 
 
Please indicate how you wish me to vote on the equipment rule proposal using the poll above. As your Territorial Governor, I need your input and I'll submit the our club's vote according to the results of this poll. You must be a registered member of the Hitching Post to vote. If you are not registered, please take a few moments to do so. Once you receive the comfirming e-mail from the board and answer it, you will be able to vote. E-mail me if you have any problems. 
 
Thanks and take care,

Lawman Wolf · January 2006

I still want to research this further before I vote but my first question is this. If we were to vote no and the matter is defeated how much worse will it get with the next version? I'm not saying we should bend over and accept this version I'm merely asking what will they come up with next if anyone knows or has any ideas. Will they tighten up more or ease up a little?

dd · January 2006

Lawman Wolf wrote on Jan 25 2006, 01:27 PM:

 
I still want to research this further before I vote but my first question is this. If we were to vote no and the matter is defeated how much worse will it get with the next version? I'm not saying we should bend over and accept this version I'm merely asking what will they come up with next if anyone knows or has any ideas. Will they tighten up more or ease up a little?

Of course there is no way to tell what their reaction might be, but from past experience I'd say that they would probably respond with a more lenient version. Or they could overrule the TGs and force them in place. In any event, I don't see them imposing a more restrictive set of rules if these fail to pass. 
 
Hope this helps <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' />

jeweler jim · January 2006

Measured my 66 that has a short stroke from Floyd and I've got room to spare. Called "Spur" Gary Blansett who modifies the Marlins to cycle a specific length cartridge. Talked to his wife and she said that his modifications would remain legal if it's passed. 
 
But just how would you enforce something like that? Wait till somebody wins a match and then challenge their rifle as illegal or check all the rifles before a match? Sounds like it could be a real pain in the a-- if it gets passed and I doubt that our local matches would be enforcing it.

Lawman Wolf · January 2006

dd wrote on Jan 25 2006, 04:26 PM:

 
Of course there is no way to tell what their reaction might be, but from past experience I'd say that they would probably respond with a more lenient version. Or they could overrule the TGs and force them in place. In any event, I don't see them imposing a more restrictive set of rules if these fail to pass. 
 
Hope this helps <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' />

Thanks Denny for the info and it does help to know what past experience might tell us.

Wrangler Rich · January 2006

<img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon12.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':flag:' /> 
 
Denny, 
Thanks for putting this info out for everyone to see and voice their opinions. You do a great service to the Cowboy Shooters in the State Line area. 
 
I voted no, because I think alot of the proposals are a knee jerk reaction to something that was supposedly already SASS approved. ie: The Lightning Rod. A.W. Smith & Sons in good faith designed, developed, and submitted to SASS their product. They advertised it in the Cowboy Chronicle as SASS approved, and marketed it as such. Many Cowboys purchased in good faith this product only to have it now disallowed. This should never have been the catalyst for the "Line in the Sand" 
 
I have 3 Marlin Hammered pumps, and although I haven't used them in competition, I knew that if I wanted to, they were there. I have 4 97's ready and able to compete. I know that the Marlins will from now on be forever banned, even though they are just as safe as the Winchesters. 
 
There are other items that I find troubling in the list, but I won't go into them at this time. 
 
Thanks 
 
WR

Ugly · January 2006

From what I have read on the SASS Wire and other posting exchanges, it seems that this version of the proposal that just got sent to the TGs is not a final proposal, that it will be revised again! 
 
Either way, I voted my way for a couple of reasons. 
 
And no matter what happens, I still have a lot of fun shooting this sport which, if it weren't for the founding fathers of SASS that I would have never discovered, so, it's their game, their rules, their ball, etc., etc,. so, I'll comply with what they say 'cuz I like playing this sport too much.

dd · January 2006

Ugly wrote on Jan 25 2006, 06:11 PM:

And no matter what happens, I still have a lot of fun shooting this sport which, if it weren't for the founding fathers of SASS that I would have never discovered, so, it's their game, their rules, their ball, etc., etc,. so, I'll comply with what they say 'cuz I like playing this sport too much.

Ugly - I like that attitude! <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsup:' />

But just how would you enforce something like that? Wait till somebody wins a match and then challenge their rifle as illegal or check all the rifles before a match? Sounds like it could be a real pain in the a-- if it gets passed and I doubt that our local matches would be enforcing it.

JJ - Someone suggested that we issue you the official ruler and let you check everyone's lever as they check in! <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':devil:' />

Tex Hewitt · January 2006

Gents, 
 
Here's my thoughts on this. 
 
There may be a MOds Race going on, if so, what difference will it make to really take the time to get this right? 
 
As of now, it comes down to a vote. A no vote does not kill the idea, just the rush to Judgement. Mostly this is the will of the few, hoisted on the backs of the many. True, some of what is proposed makes perfect sense. But some of it does not! Please explain, rationally, why 20 gauges are ok in side by sides, but not in 97's--let me be more clear here, some in SASS are hopefull that this point will be missed. The current, what's next, is to outlaw the pulling of four shotgun shells at one time, based on the fact that some shooters can;t do it. To set the stage for this NEXT edict, they are saying that 20 guage 97's give this ability to anyone. Trouble is, that the only ones using 20 gauge 97's currently are youth shooters and lady shooters. Worse is the fact , that to convert a 97 to 20--cost ruffly $1,500. 
 
Then of course, they argue that so few 97's of the day were made in 20 guage. But the fact remains that Some Where Made. 
 
Right now, as I see it, to much has been added, based on a VERy, VEry fews opinion. In voting no, we tell them to stop pushing personal agendas, and stick with the facts as they exist today. A no vote is not a vote against some reform, it's a vote against a Rush To Judgement. After all, SASS has survived for the last 25 years or so without this hurry up fix, will another year matter all that much?

Grizzly Clark · January 2006

All, 
 
As I stated in the other post, most (if not all) of my guns are "legal" according to the new rules. I still feel, however, that this "first pass" at new rules limitations should be considered just that, a first pass. In voting NO to this proposal, we are sending the message that the first pass, although a valiant effort, needs some more thought. 
 
As has been said by others, this is just my opinion. 
 
Griz

Chicago Outlaw Sider · January 2006

Well the way I see it this is a very expensive sport. In my short time I have spoke with many cowboys who just do not have the extra cash to slick up their toys. I belive this could be a way of leveling the playing field. I will not vote at this time, all my toys are slicked up, but remain legal. <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':w00t:' />

Lawman Wolf · January 2006

After quite a bit of review and even checking my toys to find that they are not affected either I will still say no as well. Most of the reason why I vote that way have already been stated so there is no sense in rehashing that. 
 
NOW however when they come up with a list of replacement body parts for those of you that already have 3/4 race bodies or are working on them at very least (you titanium guys know who you are) beware, because I will probably vote yes to make a special titanium class. 
<img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsup:' />

Ugly · January 2006

Lawman Wolf wrote on Jan 26 2006, 09:49 AM:

 
After quite a bit of review and even checking my toys to find that they are not affected either I will still say no as well. Most of the reason why I vote that way have already been stated so there is no sense in rehashing that. 
 
NOW however when they come up with a list of replacement body parts for those of you that already have 3/4 race bodies or are working on them at very least (you titanium guys know who you are) beware, because I will probably vote yes to make a special titanium class. 
<img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsup:' />

Wolf, I thing that some really huge electric magnets on each stage would slow the "six-million dollar" men up with a simple flick of the switch. How about that, huh? 'Course we would need power hook-up at the range and that might be a bit difficult to arrange. Oh, well, just a thought. <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />

jeweler jim · January 2006

Lawman Wolf wrote on Jan 26 2006, 09:49 AM:

 
NOW however when they come up with a list of replacement body parts for those of you that already have 3/4 race bodies or are working on them at very least (you titanium guys know who you are) beware, because I will probably vote yes to make a special titanium class. 
<img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsup:' />

I would look forward to the titanium/ceramic class. There would be less of us and we could further break it down into sub classes depending on how many replacement parts you have. Pretty soon I could finally win or place in a shoot as there won't be that many shooting in my class (with as many replacement parts). So I also would vote yes on the "titanium class." 
 
On the others I voted no (even though all our stuff would be legal), as I don't see how you can enforce and it would seem to be a day late and a dollar short.

dd · January 2006

Ugly wrote on Jan 26 2006, 10:10 AM:

 
Wolf, I thing that some really huge electric magnets on each stage would slow the "six-million dollar" men up with a simple flick of the switch. How about that, huh? 'Course we would need power hook-up at the range and that might be a bit difficult to arrange. Oh, well, just a thought. <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />

I'd be happy to bring my generator! 
 
Are we going to count tooth fillings and caps in this class? Embedded shrapnel and slugs might also qualify. We'll need to appoint a committee to draw up the rules! <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />

Jailbird · January 2006

Hi JJ, 
In response to your post; 
 
"On the others I voted no (even though all our stuff would be legal), as I don't see how you can enforce and it would seem to be a day late and a dollar short." 
 
 
As far as enforcement --- 99.9% of the Cowfolk we shoot with are HONEST and I truely feel that WE WILL POLICE OURSELFS -- as it stands , who follows OL Bird around every stage to make sure he doesn't use two hands on a revolver when he entered as a Gunfighter ?? Or Huck, Ugly etc. as a Duilest ?? WELL - NOBODY does --- same thing as far as illeagle firearms etc. 
 
As far as "a day late and a dollar short" --- well, better then three days late and four dollars short :P 
 
My feelings have not changed --- a whole bunch of Cowfolk in SASS/CAS really feel a need to "draw a line" on where we are headed as to firearm Mods. 
 
And in closeing -- YES, I do shoot a Spur Marlin Short Stroke Gamer Gun and its still legal <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wub.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' /> 
 
With respect --- Jailbird

Saguaro Kid · January 2006

Well, I sort of shook my head with the short stroke deal but if that's what you want I don't see a problem with limiting how short you can go they probably (I would like to think) put in plenty of leeway to let the current kits remain legal. The biggest thing I see is banning a specific brand of shotgun. Although I don't have a Marlin and probably would pass one up, if they are safe why not use them. 
 
If my memory serves me Winchester did not produce a 97 in 20 gauge. So that to me sounds reasonable. 
 
Now you can tell me how single action Lightning pistols weren't made either. That to me is just a name like the new Henry. It's not a Henry it's just called a Henry. 
 
Anyway that's what I think. 
 
SK 
 
P.S. For Bird, I do constantly watch you, Huck and Ugly to make sure that you aren't using two hands. Huck and Ugly are pretty good about it but I have seen you occasionally shooting gunfighter with two hands you each revolver. That's why you are my hero! 
 
SK

dd · January 2006

P.S. For Bird, I do constantly watch you, Huck and Ugly to make sure that you aren't using two hands. Huck and Ugly are pretty good about it but I have seen you occasionally shooting gunfighter with two hands you each revolver. That's why you are my hero!

Yep, ya gotta watch the Bird! He has more hands than most folks have toes. <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />

Dastardly Dan · January 2006

I just measured my rifles and they are a long way from being illegal. Plenty of extra swing on the levers. After re-reading the recommendations, I called Mike and told him I'd be up next week to pick up the .32 marlin he's got there. Actually need a marlin to keep that dirty brass off my expensive hats!! :P :P

Ugly · January 2006

%#@!;*& ^&*$%$ dirty brass! Yeah, right! Ha, ha, enjoy the new gun Dan.

Dastardly Dan · January 2006

Got er home, Looks like another great toy!! :P

dd · January 2006

Saw that one up there and was tempted!

dd · February 2006

Last chance, folks. I've gotta vote soon, so vote in the poll and let me know how you'd like me to cast the Posse's vote! 
 
<img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

dd · February 2006

I'll be shutting down the Poll tomorrow, Feb 10th, and forwarding the club's vote to SASS. 
 
If you haven't voted, please take a moment and do so. 
 
<img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

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